Steve G.

Question of the day

In Libertarian on December 10, 2008 at 9:14 pm

An open topic: What does the word “libertarian” mean to you?

  1. 1) One who wishes to maximize liberty and minimize government coercion.

    2) A free thinker

  2. I also like Brian Doherty’s definition: “it has been mostly definitive of libertarians to believe that government — federal, state, or local — should be restricted in its functions, generally to the protection of citizens’ lives against force or fraud and the provision of a small set of so-called public goods that could not be provided by free markets.”

    See also:
    http://libertarianmajority.net/major-schools-of-libertarianism
    http://libertarianmajority.net/free-variables-in-libertarian-theory

  3. A libertarian is one willing to impose their will of no government on everyone.

  4. Eric, is your post tongue in cheek, orthe beginnings of a L dialectic?

  5. At the risk of sounding a bit too stoical for even my own tastes, I’ll share this:

    http://dbanach.com/sisyphus.htm

    I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one’s burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man’s heart.

    But abandoning stoicism for a moment, I’ll reflect that even that ultimate political prisoner, Prometheus, was released eventually.

  6. That the highest value is self-ownership.

    That no one may initiate force against another.

    Smaller government.

    @eric not all libertarians are anarchists.

  7. In the 1980’s, my ‘plumbline’ was FIJA

    (fully informed jury ammendment).

    Important to me was:

    1) Federalists papers
    2) John Jay (& court system)
    3) Federalism v. confederalism

    I made a lot of enemies trying to promote FIJA, and it took me about 5 years to realize that my time and money wasn’t actually promoting the LP, but in essence, ‘conterproductive’.

    FIJA is boring, boring, boring, (even to most LP members)

    I now take a less ‘active’ approach, and try to avoid making too much ‘trouble’. Freedom means………

    What I believe now is irrelevant.
    What does the next generation believe? What do they consider important and what kind of freedom do they want? Freedom to go to school? Or freedom to stay out of school?

    (Bill Gates made the right choice to ‘drop out’ from MIT)

  8. Bill dropped out of Harvard.

    To me libertarianism is the view that when society makes a decision that effects behavior between individuals and others (ether individually or collectively) that such a decision should lean towards allowing the individual greater control of themselves and their property.

  9. “Bill dropped out of Harvard”….Steve Meier

    Thanks for the correction. That makes him atleast twice the hero to me. I had a third grade teacher that told me “freedom is the right to fail”. She was atleast partly right.
    In a ‘Nanny State’, no one has the “right to fail”, and we are all protected by the government. How do we thank a government that protects us from ‘failing’?

    The ‘right to fail’ is just one of many rights IMHO.

    Bill Gates chose to fail (Harvard drop-out), and voila.

  10. Non aggression principle.

  11. “Dropping out” of school is not the same as “failing”.

    Particularly in Gates’ case, I think he just had plans that he considered would be impeded rather than helped by spednig more time in school.

    Looks like he may have been correct.

  12. Hey, I dropped out of Harvard, and now I’m a successful writer for Last Free Voice.

  13. I’d say working as hard as possible to protect people from the oppression of the state. I always say that defending rights comes before everything else. You can’t base off anything without that.

    So in my opinion, protecting rights goes above political ideology.

  14. I agree with you Mike.

    In fact the doc and I were sort of talking about the idea this morning. He asked me how somebody paying a ticket to save time hurts me. I explained that while it might indeed be easier for someone to just pay and go, it solidifies a system that can later be used to shake me down.

    Back story: We live near a town of 2000 people- that town always has at least 2 cops on the 2 miles of highway (I20) that runs through it (which is already policed by troopers) and is a notorious speed trap area. The town offers no sort of defensive driving/ deferred adjudication option. The town makes you go to court to plea, go to court again to meet the DA for a pre-trial if you wish to plead NG, and again if you demand a trial. 11 years ago I got an undeserved speeding ticket while driving through it (lived 125 miles away in Dallas at the time) and tried to handle as much as I could by phone. Nothing worked so I didn’t go to court and didn’t pay the fine. Never had a problem with my license updates when I moved or married until I moved to my new area. I got a notice for the warrant for my arrest. The ticket has so much bullshit on it (wrong speed, wrong address and get this- wrong car!- and I’m fighting it. The DA (after I’d pleaded and requested a trial) had me back in court wasting a morning to try to talk me into paying. I asked what part of not guilty didn’t he understand and someday soon I hope to actually go to court to complete the matter. My husband thinks I should have just paid the $350 the DA offered when he wasted my morning and been done with it but I say this is not about safety- it’s about revenue generation and I won’t pay unless I’m convicted. And, if I’m convicted I’ll sit it out in jail before I pay a red cent. I will not be an instrument for this city to use to shake down another out of town-er.

    God, that’s a long rant ain’t it.

  15. Give ’em hell, miche!😀

    Mike Theodore said:

    “I’d say working as hard as possible to protect people from the oppression of the state. I always say that defending rights comes before everything else. You can’t base off anything without that.”

    I’d agree with one addendum in the spirit of Thomas Paine: “oppression of the state and each other.”

    That old “my rights ends where your nsoe begins” stuff.

    Cue Holtz to twist things around again in 5…4..3..2..1…

  16. Give ’em hell, miche!😀

    Mike Theodore said:

    “I’d say working as hard as possible to protect people from the oppression of the state. I always say that defending rights comes before everything else. You can’t base off anything without that.”

    I’d agree with one addendum in the spirit of Thomas Paine: “oppression of the state and each other.”

    That old “my rights ends where your nsoe begins” stuff.

    Cue Holtz to twist things around again in 5…4..3..2..1…

  17. Oh, maybe the right to live as I choose.

    Respecting your right to live as you choose.

    The right to be irresponsible if I choose.

    Miche stand up to them and make them respect you. You may save time, but there is no respect in rolling over for the bastards and paying up. Good for you for fighting.

    MHW

  18. Peter recently I asked Holtz to define education. Of course that was within the context of the LP. I often see, or read about Libertarians talking past one another about the same subject, or I have been at meetings and conventions where someone misused a word purposely to win a point.

    It helps to get people to clarify their point. I’m often told that Libertarians are socially tolerant and fiscally conservative. Well not this Libertarian. I can’t be tolerant of that which I don’t know.

    Thanks for asking. Love questions like this.

    MHW

  19. Hey, I dropped out of Harvard, and now I’m a successful writer for Last Free Voice. Peter Orvetti

    Anybody that dumps a dump like Harvird, Columbya or Yule is a heoro to mees. Welcome to Last Free Voice. Thanks fer yer wurk.

    (I’d use Mr. Gates spellcheck but ah aint’s in no mood).

  20. “A person who advocates a society where the self-evident unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are secured for the most people possible with the least diminution of rights between individuals exercising conflicting rights.”

    This definition supposes a mechanism for conflict resolution and enforcement and a final court of appeal. The final determination of the rightful title to property must be held by a monopoly agency within a specific district. Without these basic assurances anarchy would prevail.🙂

  21. I’ve still no response or date for my charge but since I mentioned it, let me tell y’all what happened today. My daughter, son-in-law and grand-babies were here for Thanksgiving. On the drive home, my son-in-law received a $180 ticket in another small town. (Undeserved for sure- he drives like a grandpa.) He is to appear in court Monday but this town allows a mail in plea. Because he is the sole breadwinner, my daughter contacted the court and learned that he may not do any kind of defensive driving or deferred adjudication because he doesn’t have a valid TX DL. (They live in LA and he has a valid LA license.) She faxed the plea of NG to the court today but he will have to appear for a pre-trial hearing with the DA and another time for trial. The drive is 300 miles EACH way so that’s 1200 miles of driving to fight a $180 ticket. Now, some would say that it’s cheaper and easier to pay but they are 20 years old and cannot afford the certain increase in insurance premium from a charge that is undeserved.

    Thankfully, Ash was raised in my house and she’s absolutely livid that the state of Texas can extort money that way; she’s adamant about not rolling over. They’ve discussed blowing the whole thing off with Richard taking the passenger seat just before the state line on future visits but I think I’m going to hire a traffic ticket attorney for them. Or I may just buy their gas so I can get extra visits. ;o)

  22. I should have said my daughter contacted the court for him because he was doing what daddies do- working.

  23. Libertarian to me is, “Leave me alone if I am not bothering anybody.”

  24. Live and let live.

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