Steve G.

Charting Barr

In Libertarian on August 15, 2008 at 9:53 pm

Elsewhere some comrades were discussing how they would chart Barr on the Nolan chart. I thought it’d be fun to have the discussion here. So – put Barr on the political map. Go for it.

Where's Bob?

Can you find Bob?

Rules:

  1. Ya gotta back up your rating with quotes or other material.
  2. This should be rating Barr since he joined the LP, not before.
  3. Just kidding – there are no rules! (But those are good guidelines).

Thanks to ex-comrade Carl, from whose essay I lifted the pic.

  1. Looks like I’m still a Socialist after all.

  2. Not JUST a Socialist; a *Damn* Socialist. Let’s get it right!

    With Carl; it was all or nothing apparently. Or he thought that’s what others thought. or something. I just think it’s a funny graphic. Of course, that may be ’cause I’m safely tucked in the “Lib” area in any case.

    But I sure as heck didn’t start there. I was fer sure a ‘damn socialist’. I’m going for the ‘most improved’ award🙂

  3. So Peter, which of these does you in?

    Do you think the government should censor free speech?
    Do you think there should be a draft?
    Do you think the government should make laws regulating sex between consenting adults?
    Do you think the government should decide which medications and/or recreational intoxicants individuals should be allowed to use without fear of imprisonment?
    Do you think we should have a National ID card, nowhere authorized in the Constitution?
    Do you think the government should illegally give taxpayer dollars to private business?
    Do you think government should prevent me from buying a product made in another country or from selling my products to people in other countries?
    Do you think I should be made to prop up the dying Ponzi scheme known as Socialist Security, rather than having control of my own retirement?
    Do you think I should be robbed at gunpoint in order to perpetuate the cycle of dependence endured by people at the lowest rungs of the socio-economic ladder, rather than allowing private charities to help those in need?
    Do you think government should not be cut even in half? More like 99% would put us into constitutional range

    No offense to Mr. Orvetti, but I don’t see how anyone can’t pass that test with 100%.

  4. The statements on the Quiz are as follows:
    Government should not censor speech, press, media or Internet.
    Military service should be voluntary. There should be no draft.
    There should be no laws regarding sex for consenting adults.
    Repeal laws prohibiting adult possession and use of drugs.
    There should be no National ID card.
    End “corporate welfare.” No government handouts to business.
    End government barriers to international free trade.
    Let people control their own retirement; privatize Social Security.
    Replace government welfare with private charity.
    Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more.

    …and there is a “maybe” option. The last time I took it, I said Agree or Maybe to everything. The older I get, the less certain about things I am.

  5. There aren’t any real tough questions on there like “Should we have vouchers?” or ones that divide libertarians like abortion, immigration, gay (state) marriage, standing armies, etc.

    What the heck could you say “maybe” to above?

  6. BTW: I’m not trying to be a prick — it just comes naturally.

  7. Let me try and help Peter here, and say why I mark maybe sometimes.
    I’m not an expert, G.E.
    I’m not gonna say I know everything about everything. How can I sit here and say “it should be that way, definitely, and it will work!”? It would seem kind of ignorant on my part to go about saying I know everything.

  8. The post I just made may clarify a little.

  9. You don’t have to be an expert to know that aggression is wrong. To know that the government shouldn’t censor speech, impose a draft (slavery), restrict non-violent personal behavior (sex and drugs), violate the Constitution (National ID, corporate welfare), prevent me from pursuing happiness by engaging in commerce, etc.

  10. “You don’t have to be an expert to know that aggression is wrong. To know that the government shouldn’t censor speech, impose a draft (slavery), restrict non-violent personal behavior (sex and drugs), violate the Constitution (National ID, corporate welfare), prevent me from pursuing happiness by engaging in commerce, etc.”

    Yes, you can agree with all that, as I do. But then Libertarians get into other things, and all the people who agreed with what you just said have to agree with those as well. If not, their a damn socialist who should leave the party.

    We’re the only party that tries to get people to leave…

  11. We’re the only party that tries to get people to leave…

    (1) I doubt it.

    (B) anyway, it’s not true. What many of us do try is to get people to think, and get them to think and act consistent with a basic principle.

    Naturally some peeps will take that encouragement to think and act consistently as an invitation to leave, but in reality it’s an invitation to become a better person.

    Of course many of us can do better in the invitation department, but you can’t control what others say – only how you react to it.

    Consider the old bugaboo of the ‘net, the ‘spelling flame’ – which I will use as an analogy for the ‘ideology flame’.

    Scenario 1
    A: I’m going form Baltimore to DC tomorrow.
    B: IDIOT! How can you go ‘form’ one place to another?!
    A: Faggot! Why are you always trying to shut me up and run me off!?
    B: C$%E*F&V. Hitler! Nazi! ^%*%!

    Scenario 2
    A: I’m going form Baltimore to DC tomorrow.
    X: Err, I expect you meant to say ‘from’ rather than ‘form’.
    A: Right. I REALLY need to watch that mistake; thanks for the reminder.
    A: NP; I do it myself all the time.

    YES, ‘B’ is an ass. He may be an ass because he’s insecure, having a bad day, or simply finds it amusing to be an ass. Perhaps he’s really a nice guy, but it’s just his ‘style’. Whatever. Point is, if you’re ‘A’, you’ve -still- made a mistake. YOU can choose to be an ass like ‘B’, or a reasonable person. It’s not a question of ‘honor’; you don’t need to ‘get what ya got’, you just need to learn what you can and move on, ignoring ‘B’ in the future rather than encouraging his ass-ness.

    So think of the power YOU can exercise in changing the scenario:

    Scenario 3
    A: I’m going form Baltimore to DC tomorrow.
    B: IDIOT! How can you go ‘form’ one place to another?!
    A: Right. I REALLY need to watch that mistake; thanks for the reminder.
    B:

    But apparently this is difficult for many folks. I *suspect* that too many of us find this sort of verbal conflict fun, and play at it like puppies wrestling. Trouble is, it can substitute for real thought and advancement past a certain point, *and* it’s a bit rude to all the more serious older dogs who might find an occasional rasslin’ session amusing, but don’t care to have puppies yapping all the time nonstop.

    Remember: analogy (and rather bizarre mixed metaphor) only; all disclaimers apply. The main problem with the analogy is that politics is a BIT more subjective (seemingly; please you Rand-freaks and Rothbard-absolutists, just simmer down for a sec) and a -lot- more complex than spelling, so it’s not always clear who is right (if anyone is) and why right away in any given exchange. This leads to more posturing and less insightful discussion.

    Frustrating, really. But there you have it. My embryonic thesis on communications in the net-age.

    Anyway, my rather long-winded point(s) is/are that humor is important and folks leaning more and more libertarian are welcome, but naturally we’re gonna want to encaourge them to move in our direction.

  12. YES, ‘B’ is an ass. He may be an ass because he’s insecure, having a bad day, or simply finds it amusing to be an ass. Perhaps he’s really a nice guy, but it’s just his ’style’.

    Cease and desist using my likeness without written permission.

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