Steve G.

Sometimes I just have to shake my head in amazement at the disinformation which passes as “news” on blogs

In Libertarian on June 22, 2008 at 12:57 am

From Lew Rockwell’s blog:

Some Libertarians are upset that Bob Barr’s PAC still supports neocon Republicans like Saxby Chambliss, Norm Coleman, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, and Jeff Sessions. But why? Surely Libertarians knew they were getting a smart, accomplished public spokesman for gun rights and civil liberties. But on a number of other issues, as everyone surely also knew, he does not agree with, say, the late Harry Browne.

However, George Phillies, one of the former LP presidential candidates, sees financial support for Republicans with Libertarian challengers as a betrayal. Indeed, Phillies–who is on the New Hampshire ballot as a placeholder–is now trying to keep his name there for November, in opposition to Barr. Apparently Massaschusetts–Phillies’s home state–is next. Stay tuned.

Dr. Phillies is not trying to keep his name on the New Hampshire ballot – that state does not allow for ballot substitutions, and that legal situation is certainly not Dr. Phillies’s fault, nor is it a slam at Bob Barr since at the time Phillies’ name was submitted as placeholder, Bob Barr had not even announced his candidacy – nor is Massachusetts “next” since Dr. Phillies contacted the ACLU, and the ACLU is filing suit to force Massachusetts to place Barr on the ballot.

  1. Especially considering the real news was posted on multiple blogs already.

  2. Is this something new in New Hampshire, where the BOE doesn’t allow candidate substitution?

    If not, how was it done in the past?

  3. […] It appears that Lew Rockwell got this one wrong. George Phillies is “continuing” his presidential campaign, but only out of necessity. […]

  4. The New Hampshire law has never permitted substitution. That was known when the LPNH chose its candidate, when I accepted their nomination, when they petitioned successfully for me, and when I filed my Declaration of Intent and paid my fee. On the other hand, the LPNH action has only an infinitesimal effect on ballot access for Bob Barr, who has also filed his declaration of intent, and who will also be on the ballot as a Libertarian if he satisfies all the other requirements.

  5. So, in contrast to the results of the LP convention in Denver, the LP of
    New Hampshire has decided they want George Phillies as their candidate.

    If true, like I said before, this is a fractured party, and at least one state party (will there be more?) is refusing to put the nationally nominated Barr on their ballot.

  6. In Florida, I do not doubt that Barr will be on the ballot for the LP.

    Charles Jay is looking better than ever!

  7. The Libertarian Party of New Hampshire made their decision well over a year ago. They then collected signatures for their candidates. Signature collection was largely done some time ago. The New Hampshire doctrine is that those signatures represent the voter supporting that particular candidate. When the LPNH collected for Ken Blevens for US Senate that was voters saying they wanted Ken, specifically, on the ballot, not some random libertarian to be determined’ There is an alternative path to getting party recognition–parties can choose candidates–but that is not what the LPNH did.

    New Hampshire is not refusing to put Barr on the ballot. The candidate nominating path is open to him. If completed, he will be on the ballot in NH this Fall.

  8. George,

    So if and when Barr qualifies in N.H., there will be two tickets listed as “Libertarian” on the ballot — his and yours?

  9. I have to say that I’m terribly impressed by the level of professionalism and cooperation the candidates and the LNC have demonstrated over the past few months. Party unity is even more important for us than it is for the republicrats.

  10. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that in New Hampshire, a person can only sign to put one Presidential candidate on the ballot. If so, this means that anyone who signed to put George Phillies on the ballot will not be able to sign to put Bob Barr on the ballot. If this is true, this will make petitioning to put Bob Barr on the ballot more difficult than it would be otherwise (particularly if other candidates such as Ralph Nader are collecting petition signatures at the same time).

  11. Wow, what a surprise — Lew Rockwell spreading disinformation about the LP and any Libertarian who doesn’t buy into their brand of fringe-right Republicanism.

  12. I think it’s pretty absurd to call Lew’s mistake here “disinfo.”

    Was he trying to make Phillies look bad?

    Hardly. In fact, it seems to me the opposite.

    Lew was just mistaken.

  13. Lew was spreading disinformation.

    That’s all the more ironic, considering that just a few months ago, his blog was prepared to call on Libertarians to dump the party and vote Republican if their favored candidate in the GOP won that party’s competition.

    The inference, which was totally without basis, is that George is launching some sort of grudge revenge campaign, when it couldn’t be further from the truth. As a member of Team Phillies at the LNC convention, I am tired of unethical sorts like Rockwell and crew constantly attempting to infer that George is undertaking the sort of political shenanigans that they themselves indulge within.

    If they were serious about wanting to get it right, they could call George and speak with him. It’s not difficult to do. Their interest obviously is not in getting at the truth, but taking swipes at the LP.

  14. I don’t think Lew was spreading disinfo. Remember, this scenario is quite unusual, doesn’t occur often and is a bit confusing to follow. Give him a break.

  15. I would have been more than happy to give Lew the benefit of the doubt, except that the correct information was already on Last Free Voice, and I know he looked at Last Free Voice because he linked to one of our articles as a source.

  16. For the future, the LP should move its LNC in the year of the presidential nomination back with a month or more to avoid such problems in the future. Just think of the wasted time and money. The Barr campaign should repay Dr. Phillies with the amount he had to spend. It would also be better for the LP to have its nominee chosen earlier, so that he/she can complete the ballot access, help the party to unite and also give more time to prepare for the opposition in the general election and raise funds plus help/campaign for LP candidates for congress/senate/governor.

  17. Lew was just mistaken.

    I agree. Lew has FAR more important shit to do than to follow the very inconsequential happenings of the LP. He left the LP long ago after the Retard Caucus first started taking hold.

  18. The thing that concerns me about Lew’s post is his apparent ignorance of Barf’s stances:

    Surely Libertarians knew they were getting a smart, accomplished public spokesman for gun rights and civil liberties.

    What a bunch of bullshit. Barf was a board member of the NRA. Anyone that knows the history of the NRA knows they could care less about the 2nd amendment. And Barf is by no means a friend of civil liberties.

  19. ENM – Yes, Lew looked at LFV. But I’ve made mistakes doing the same kind of thing. It’s not an excuse, but it is a fact. I once linked to a story about the Ron Paul Billionaire and quoted it without understanding what they guy was actually saying, and getting the names wrong, etc. Everybody makes mistakes! The best of us do it less often, and Lew (unlike) me definitely falls into that category.

  20. The NHLP started collecting sigs close to a year ago. The reason they did so is because of the way the petitioning windows work in NH – They can start early, have lots of time to collect, at places where the petitioning is easy (Local elections, town meetings, and other gatherings of pre-qualified voters) OR they can wait until the last minute, and have a very short time to collect at a difficult time of year to do so.

    Another factor is that the way petitioning works in NH, is you can have EVERY candidate in the district on the same petition, so that one signature is good for an entire slate – thus if you are collecting for (for instance) State Rep, then if the presidential candidate is listed on the form as well, it’s essentially a “freebie” to collect for pres.

    Four years ago, the NHLP was pursuaded by National to wait until after Natcom to do any collecting – National then dropped the ball, and as a result there was NO pres. candidate, and few down ticket LP candidates on the ballot. This time, the NHLP decided that they weren’t going to let that happen to them again, and to start collecting as soon as the petition window openend – At the time of the NH convention where Phillies was chosen, George was arguably by far the best announced candidate. Ruwart had said she wasn’t running, and Barr hadn’t slimed out from under his rock… The NHLP decided to put George on as their candidate largely because it cost them nothing extra to do so…

    At this point, all that Barr has to do to appear on the NH ballot is either litigate to replace George, OR collect the requesite number of signatures – either action at his expense since the NHLP is still quite happy with thier presidential nominee…

    (It is worth of note that even though the NHLP made the decision, National gave George a large ration of fecal material over their choice, including some threats to expell him from the party – made by reps from the region that MA decided not to join…)

    ART
    LPMA Operations Facilitator
    Elected Libertarian
    LP Pres. Elector, who WON’T vote for Barr!
    (I’m not in the NHLP, but I have multiple friends that are)

  21. LP Pres. Elector, who WON’T vote for Barr!

    Thank you!!

  22. If it’s a simple mistake, then it seems like all someone has to do is inform him of that and a retraction should be posted over at LRC. If that doesn’t happen, then perhaps its not a simple mistake.

  23. Kirsten – I agree. I have to wonder if EFM bothered to contact Lew prior to this post. Lew is easy to talk to and almost always responds…

  24. Of course I “bothered” to contact him. I sent him an email (to lewrockwell at mac dot com), prior to posting this, and I also left the link to this entry on the Digg entry. However, he has not responded yet. That being said, I do allow for the possibility that he has not checked his email, seeing as how all this was on a weekend and he may actually have a life.

    Normally I would have waited a day or so for a response, but his incorrect allegation is so damaging to Dr. Phillies that it needed to be countered immediately, before it took on a life of its own as such rumors are wont to do on the internet.

    If he retracts his statement, I will of course update the entry to reflect that retraction.

  25. Four years ago, the NHLP was pursuaded by National to wait until after Natcom to do any collecting – National then dropped the ball, and as a result there was NO pres. candidate, and few down ticket LP candidates on the ballot. This time, the NHLP decided that they weren’t going to let that happen to them again, and to start collecting as soon as the petition window openend – At the time of the NH convention where Phillies was chosen, George was arguably by far the best announced candidate. Ruwart had said she wasn’t running, and Barr hadn’t slimed out from under his rock… The NHLP decided to put George on as their candidate largely because it cost them nothing extra to do so…

    The above is all accurate, but it brings up a different problem. Unlike the situation in Mass, Ne Hampshire clearly does NOT allow for substitution. They probably wouldn’t have been able to get on the ballot if they had to wait until after the NatCon…

    To me, this is just another reason why we should nominate earlier, like we used to.

  26. Well, it’s well into Monday morning with today’s article lineup posted at LRC, plus a new blog entry by Lew himself, but no retraction.

    Hmm…

  27. To comment on nominating earlier, I wholeheartily agree that it needs to be done. Why compete with the first major “vacation” weekend of the year and also the Indy 500 for TV viewers? MLK weekend in Jan. or President’s Day weekend in Feb. seems to make much better sense. More people would be at home (and inside the house in winter) to watch the C-SPAN coverage. It would give activists 3 to 4 more months to “get things done”!

  28. Well, it’s well into Monday morning with today’s article lineup posted at LRC, plus a new blog entry by Lew himself, but no retraction.

    Hmm…

    It’s a conspiracy against Barf! Run for your lives!

  29. With all due respect, George Phillies was told — in advance of the LPNH nomination last year — that the result would be that the eventual nominee, if it wasn’t Dr. Phillies, would be unable to gain the LP ballot line in that state; and that regardless of events between the time of LPNH’s nomination of Phillies and the national convention, Phillies would remain on the ballot.

    Phillies chose to seek & accept the nomination anyway; and made sure the paperwork went in to the state board to lock it all up.

    A year later, we are now being asked to believe that his seizure of the LP ballot line in NH is neither his fault nor a big problem.

    If one were to ask all of the people who participated in the LPNH selection of Phillies last year if they realized that doing so would result in all of this, I’d bet few of them would indicate they were given any such notice.

  30. Marc, don’t assume the NH voters are as dumb as you seem to be… Barr can STILL get on the ballot in NH, all he has to do is collect the required number of signatures – something that is easy or hard depending on who you talk to (though it is interesting that many of those who have petitioned in NH think it will not be easy in the time remaining) Because the LP is currently a minor party in NH, Barr can ALSO use the name according to what I’ve been told by NHLP members.

    It’s been my experience that NH folks in general tend to be much more aware of how their election laws work due to the high exposure of NH to politicians…

    George was also quite aware that the nominating convention in NH was a CONTESTED item – if he had not campaigned for, and won, the nomination, a different LP candidate would have, in which case you’d have the same problem with a different, possibly less acceptable name. Or possibly Ron Paul might have won (he was definitely one of the contenders) which had its own can of worms… Or possibly NOTA might have been elected, in which case again you have a different mess, with Barr in the same situation essentially….

    Of course, if the LP had been a major party, things might have been considerably different, though it is likely that George would still have won the LP’s primary – remember that neither Barr, nor Ruwart were running at that point, and George looked better than a lot of his opponents…

    ART

  31. Mr. Montoni, who has a longstanding disagreement with me going back to the massive irregularities and corruption during our 1996 and 2000 Libertarian Presidential campaigns, as covered in my book Funding Liberty http://3mpub.com/phillies, makes a variety of false claims, including

    “Marc Montoni Says:
    June 25, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    With all due respect, George Phillies was told— in advance of the LPNH nomination last year — …”

    No one made such a statement to me. I suppose it is good that we did not have anyone this clueless wandering about.

    “… that the result would be that the eventual nominee, if it wasn’t Dr. Phillies, would be unable to gain the LP ballot line in that state…”

    This statement is also totally false. Any Libertarian who files the declaration of intent for President, pays the fee, and collects the needed signatures will have the same ‘Libertarian’ party listing that I will.

    “…; and that regardless of events between the time of LPNH’s nomination of Phillies and the national convention, Phillies would remain on the ballot…”

    I am not on the ballot until the Declaration of Intent is filed (the window was June 4-14), the fee is paid, and the signatures are verified and recounted by the Secretary of State’s Office.

    “…Phillies chose to seek & accept the nomination anyway; and made sure the paperwork went in to the state board to lock it all up….”

    There is no “State Board”. Nothing is locked up.

    “…A year later, we are now being asked to believe that his seizure of the LP ballot line in NH is neither his fault nor a big problem….”

    The LPNH decided what to do, and collected the signatures. References to “the” Libertarian ballot line as though only on candidate can have it makes no sense in New Hampshire, and I have personally discussed this with the NH Secretary of State.

    “…If one were to ask all of the people who participated in the LPNH selection of Phillies last year if they realized that doing so would result in all of this, I’d bet few of them would indicate they were given any such notice…”

    Everyone I have spoken to understood this matter clearly.

  32. […] Sometimes I just have to shake my head i […]

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