Steve G.

Liveblogging LP Convention: C-Span Coverage: Nominating Ballots

In Libertarian, Libertarian Convention on May 25, 2008 at 6:24 pm

hey plan to ballot through lunch, but there will be natural breaks where they can take care of needs. Sandwiches available.

I heard the names George Phillies and Christine Smith.

The nominee will be chosen by majority vote. Those who receive the fewest vots and those polling less than 5% are removed from subsequent ballots. Lather, rinse, repeat until someone has a majority.

Something I wonder about with the LP is that the delegates don’t necessarily vote for who their constituents would want. I find that odd, since people are credentialed so they can represent their state, but in the end they represent themselves.

I heard Mike Jingozian’s name, and Christine Smith’s name.

I see PaulieCannoli just kind of wandering around by himself.

Did the Barr supporters actually think it was a good idea to interrupt the speaker by walking through with their signs? That doesn’t seem to be a very good idea, especially given the crowd’s extremely negative reaction. As I said before, I suspect that just lost him the nomination. I wonder whether he was behind that or approved it, and if not what he thinks about it.

They’re showing a guy with some major body modification. He has the giant rings in his earlobes, like you see in some native tribes. I wonder if it hurts to do that? I think they just do it very slowly, a little bit bigger hole each time until it’s the size you want.

They keep showing the same Barr delegate, trying to talk people into supporting him. He seems to be trying to convince either a Ruwart or Smith supporter to vote Barr for Prez, the female for VP, but the supporter shot him down and said she would not run with any candidate she has major problems with, and she has major problems with Barr.

Interesting if they were referring to Ruwart, because a lot of people have said that Barr/Ruwart is their preferred ticket.

Some guy just said “Vote Mike Gravel” into the roaming camera.

Hancock is saying he thinks Americans will wake up. Another guy is talking about the Federal Reserve. Hancock wants to stop the debt.

I need to put a television in my kitchen, because I really need to clean the kitchen but I also want to watch this. I guess the kitchen will have to wait. Argh.

I’ll be back, need to take my pain medication.

I’m back. I feel kind of guilty for spending so much time doing this, when it’s my partner’s only day off this week. I really wish some of the contributors would jump in and give me a hand.

They seem to be adding up votes. Wayne Allyn Root got zero votes from his home state of Nevada, they were shocked by that. That’s not a good sign for him.

I see someone in a “V for Vendetta” mask coming toward the camera.

State by state announcement of results in five minutes. I’ll try to keep up with that, but I’m on a different computer than usual so my fingers on a strange keyboard may not cooperate.

Some woman in a weird hat is talking about her mom watching it on C-Span, but is using a very strange voice in her impersonation. I get the impression she just wants to be on television.

Some guy is telling Gravel that he may have beaten Phillies in the first round.

I forgot to mention earlier, but someone wrote in Ron Paul.

Results in one minute.

Results starting.

By the way, did I mention on LFV that the LP’s Media Director, Andrew Davis, was photographed a couple of years ago carrying an “Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve” sign? I have it on my computer, if anyone wants to see it.

Results to be alphabetical. They have limited supplies of paper, so they want people to put votes on only a small piece of it. Huh?

New Hampshire: Talking about how great their state is, blah blah. Get on with it already. NOTA 1, Barr 1, Gravel 1, Phillies 3, Ruwart 3

New York: What happened to New Jersey and New Mexico?

New Jersey: Ruwart 3, Root 11

New Mexico: Gravel 1, Kubby 2, Root 1, Ruwart 3, Smith 1, William Colin 1 (Huh?)

New York: Barr 4, Gravel 4, Jingozian 1, Kubby 1, Phillies 0, Root 6, Ruwart 5, Smith 0, NOTA 0

North Carolina: Gravel 1, Barr 2, Ruwart 5

North Dakota: No delegates

Ohio: blah blah blah. Get on with it. Ruwart 3, Root 7

Oklahoma: Ruwart 1, Kubby 3, Barr 3

Oregon: blah blah, blah. Get on with it. That poor guy is so nervous he’s shaking like a leaf. Jingozian 9, Gravel 3, Barr 1, Root 1, Ruwart 1, Smith 1

Pennsylvania: Barr 6, Phillies 4, Gravel 7, Jingozian 1, Ruwart 2, Kubby 1, Penn Jillette also got votes

Rhode Island: Phillies 2

South Carolina: blah, blah. Root 1, Gravel 3, Barr 8

South Dakota: Root 3

Tennessee: blah, blah. Phillies 1, Kubby 1, Root 1, Barr 3, Ruwart 8

Texas: blah, blah. Barr 8, Gravel 4, Kubby 2, Phillies 1, Root 6, Ruwart 14

Utah: blah, blah. Barr 2, Gravel 1, Kubby 2, Ruwart 2

Vermont: Ruwart 1

Virginia: blah, blah. Barr 10, Gravel 1, Jingozian 1, Root 1, Ruwart 3

Washington: blah, blah. Barr 1, Gravel 4, Kubby 1, Phillies 2, Root 3, Ruwart 3

West Virginia: blah, blah. Gravel 1, Ruwart 2

Wisconsin: Gravel 2, Ruwart 4

Wyoming: Ruwart 1, Barr, 1, Gravel 1

Alabama: Gravel 1, Kubby 1, Ruwart 2, Barr 7

Alaska: Barr 1, Ruwart 1, Root 2

Arizona: Ruwart 8, Kubby 3, Barr 2, Gravel 2, Root 1, Phillies 1

Arkansas: blah blah. Imperato 1

California: blah, blah. Ron Paul 1, kubby 6, Gravel 9, Phillies 10, Barr 17, Ruwart 20, Root 38

Colorado: Barr 2, Gravel 2, Jingozian 2, Kubby 2, Phillies 2, Root 9, Ruwart 4, Smith 1, NOTA 1, Ron Paul 3

Connecticut: Ruwart 1, Kubby 2, Gravel 2

Delaware: Ron Paul 1

District of Colombia: Barr 3

Florida: Gravel 2, Phillies 2, Root 1, Ruwart 5, Barr 9

Georgia: Ruwart 2, Barr 33

Hawaii: blah, blah. Kubby 1

Idaho: Barr 1, Gravel 1, Jingozian 1, Kubby 2, Root 1, Ruwart 1

Illinois: blah, blah. Phillies 1, Root 1, Gravel 1, Kubby 2, Jingozian 2, Barr 2, Ruwart 10

Indiana: blah blah. Root 6, Gravel 5, Barr 4, Phillies 3, Jingozian 2, Ruwart 2

Iowa: Phillies 3, Root 2, Ruwart 1, Gravel 1

Kansas: Barr 4, Root 3, Ruwart 2, Jingozian 1

Kentucky: Root 3, Ruwart 1

Louisiana: Smith 1, Ruwart 1, Gravel 1, Barr 2, Root 3

Maine: He is so nervous he can barely speak, but tries to make jokes. Barr 1, Kubby 1, Ruwart 1, Ron Paul 1

Maryland: Barr 2, Phillies 5, Kubby 1, Ruwart 2

Massachusetts: blah blah. Phillies 6

Michigan: blah, blah. Barr 4, Gravel 3, Jingozian 1, Kubby 1, Root 5, Ruwart 12

Minnesota: Phillies 1, Smith 1, Barr 2, Root 2, Ruwart 1

Mississippi: Barr 1, Root 1, Ruwart 2

Missouri: blah blah. Gravel 1, Kubby 3, Barr 5, Root 4, Ruwart 4, Jingozian 2

Montana: Phillies 2, Ruwart 1, Kubby 1

Nebraska: Ruwart 3

Nevada: Ruwart 1, Kubby 1, Smith 1, Gravel 6

Results of first ballot:

Barr 153 votes – 25%

Ruwart 152 votes – 25%

Root 123 votes – 20%

Gravel 71 votes – 11%

Phillies 49

Kubby 41

jingozian 23

Smith 6

Plus ten write-ins

(Sorry, they didn’t keep it up long enough for me to copy all of them.)

Jingozian and Smith excluded from second ballot

He was asked to put the results back up, but he said he can’t do that because the computer is being used for something else. Eventually read out totals.

Jingozian concession speech; not giving up, will be back. Stumps for VP? Not about him, it’s about what’s good for the party. Endorses Gravel again.

Smith concession speech. Disappointed, but is visibly angry about Barr being on top. Bashes conservatives. She’s pissed. Says Barr is not a Libertarian, “we don’t trust you!” She thanks her supporters. Said “put a libertarian on the ballot”, got boo’d. Damn, that is one angry woman. I get the distinct impression that she is extremely pissed at getting only 6 votes. Did she really expect to get more than that?

Being interviewed, Christine Smith says libertarians are selling out. Says people are leaving LP if Barr is chosen. Damn, she’s angry again. Says Barr needs to use the media he brags about to apologize to people who are in prison because of his laws. Says libertarians are selling out by supporting Barr. Says it’s all for nothing if we sell out. Barr is not a libertarian, is wolf in sheep’s clothing, etc.

She kind of has a point, in my opinion, though she goes about expressing that point the wrong way.

No state-by-state ballots this time.

Bob Barr 30%

Ruwart 26%

Root 138

Gravel 73

Phillies 36

Kubby 32

Kubby eliminated from next ballot. Again, they didn’t leave it up long enough for me to get all the numbers. Argh.

They’re reading out the state-by-state, but I’m not even going to try to keep up with that.

Kubby giving concession speech. Endorses Ruwart.

My other half just told me he’s going to make us some steaks for dinner. Yum. I hope this is over by then, or that at least one of the contributors has come by to help. Otherwise, I’m closing up shop. I don’t want to spend my entire holiday weekend stuck inside liveblogging.

Some guy (Joe Johnson) was making a speech, but not about the candidates, so I walked downstairs to talk to my other half for a few minutes. I’m back now, and he’s still talking. Geez.

He finally stopped talking, thank goodness.

Mary Ruwart is talking to a small group of people, she seems to have serious concerns about Bob Barr. She says he will legalize medical marijuana, but not heroin or crack. She says our media is the internet. She also says Ron Paul supporters will not support Barr. Libertarians in the LGBT community are telling her that if Barr is elected, they’re leaving. She thinks Ron Paul might talk about her, but I think that’s doubtful.

However, I absolutely will not support Bob Barr under any circumstances, so she might be right about a defection. I won’t defect, but I also won’t give Barr any positive press.

Total results of third ballot:

Tied for first place between Barr and Ruwart (186), followed by Root, Gravel, and Phillies in last place. Someone wrote in Ron Paul again. They are just reading out the state totals quickly, so again I’m not going to try to keep up with them.

Fourth ballot; Phillies eliminated. That’s a shame, but on the bright side I guess he saved himself the $100,000 he was going to spend on his campaign.

Phillies concession speech. Disappointed that not one person has asked him to endorse someone they wanted to lose. Big laughter over that. Will not speak ill of a fellow Libertarian. Nice guy. Acknowledges Gravel for debating a Libertarian when he was running as a Democrat. Thanks Ruwart and Barr for entering race to do what they think is right for the party. Voting majority of his state is neopagan, he wanted to make that point, undoubtedly directed at Barr. Enemy is Democratic Party and conservatives. We are the party of the future. Nice speech, but I was hoping he would endorse someone.

I want to say this. George Phillies is a really nice guy. I realize some people have a problem with him, but I’m not one of those people. He has always treated both me and LFV with fairness and respect, and even offered to help get GE press credentials when they were denied by LPHQ, so LFV could cover the convention. George is a good man, a dedicated libertarian, and I will always think very well of him.

Barr, Gravel, Ruwart and Root on fourth ballot.

Root people talking about how he needs to take 40 votes from Gravel. That is never going to happen, because anyone who supports Mike Gravel is never going to support Wayne Root.

Gravel talking to someone, says this is a vehicle for him to get out his message, to give power back to the people.

Root walking by with his fake infomercial smile. Talking to Gravel, then someone pointed out the camera.

Barr and Ruwart still tied for first place, Gravel in last place. Gravel will be out of the fifth ballot. He doesn’t seem to be making a speech, though. I wonder why? They show him talking to people, so he is still there. he says it’s a collective decision, and he respects it. He said to that person that he voted for Root out of the three still left. What? Damn, now I’ve lost respect for Gravel. I would have thought that he was supporting NOTA.

Gravel says this is the end of his political career. He would not have done anything differently. He is not going to make a speech. He is going to push the National Initiative until the day he dies. He says this is all politics as usual, that representative government is broken, and libertarians have chosen not to fix it.

He says he would vote for Barr before he’d vote for Ruwart, if it comes down to the two of them.

Fifth ballot totals: Ruwart 229, Barr 223, Root 165, NOTA 6

Root is out of the sixth ballot. I have a feeling the Root supporters will support Barr, not Ruwart, based upon her statements about child porn; remember, it was Root who raised a big stink about that. If Ruwart wins, I will be very surprised.

Root making concession speech. It’s not over, he wants to be Barr’s VP. No surprise there. Says he has been respectful to all candidates, but that’s not true because he was not respectful to Mary Ruwart. He keeps raising his fist into the air and saying ‘Bang!” What a retard.

Sixth ballot is Barr vs Ruwart vs NOTA. It will be interesting to see how many votes NOTA gets this time.

Root and Barr are embracing. Root’s daughter is there, he’s talking about her running for president again. Boring. Root’s baby is on TV, cute kid. Root was asked why he didn’t endorse Barr. Root never actually answered the question, but says he and Barr can change the face of the country. Yawn. If it’s a Barr/Root ticket, I will no longer support the LP, because that will be proof that it has been taken over by conservatives. I have never supported a conservative candidate, and I’m not about to start now.

People are walking around with Ruwart signs. Some woman is telling people to vote Barr/Root, talking about the next 12 years. If that’s the ticket, the LP will be unrecognizable long before then.

Some guy is talking about VP voting, says Ruwart’s people will want her, but Ruwart will not accept running with Barr. You can hear people chanting “Barr/Root! Barr/Root!” Other people are chanting “Mary! Mary!”

If the winner of this round does not win by a majority, will they still have to go up against NOTA? That would be interesting, LOL.

Results of sixth ballot: Barr 324, Ruwart 276, NOTA 4

Ruwart speaking. Thanks supporters and campaign team. She thanked LFV’s own Jason Seagraves right after her husband. Jason, you’re supposed to clap for the other people she’s introducing, LOL. Then again, Nancy Neal clapped for herself, and that’s a bigger faux pas. She says it’s time to get on with the business of the party. She says nothing about being interested in becoming the Vice Presidential nominee.

Barr will address delegates about the Vice Presidential nominee. Called Redpath the greatest political leader in the US. Um, yeah. Talked about seeing people in a Barr administration cabinet. Um, yeah. Talks about his son, thanks him. Derek is his son’s name. Introduces his wife, Geri Barr (not sure of spelling, I just guessed). Russ Verney on staff. Gawd, this man is boring. Says it will be historic and positive campaign that will succeed, not in race to make a point, or to send message, is “campaign that will win”. Um, yeah. Introduces Steve Gordon and Shane Corey. The man is either lying or delusional, because there is no way he can win the general election.

Taking recess until 4:15, which should be 7:15pm EST.

C-Span did not pick up the VP nominations after all, but Root won.

The LP ballot for the 08 election is Barr/Root.

It looks like Barr has a live stream at, and I’m really sick of liveblogging (and even sicker of watching this crap on television), so I’m signing out.  (Thanks to Jacqueline Passey for the link!)

  1. Thanks for keeping us updated.

  2. I don’t agree with George on everything, but I certainly do admire him. I would not be upset if he ended up as our candidate. Maybe he could be VP?

  3. If Barr’s the nominee, I’d like seeing Kubby as VP.

  4. Gravel voted for Root. So maybe you can’t rule out his supporters.

  5. Gravel just said ( on CSPAN) he voted for Root and will continue to. He wold probably vote for Barr over Ruwart. He will not make a speech or endorsement- isn’t his style.

    He will keep voting in all the Libertarian nominations, keep talking libertarian message, keep making speeches and writing books,etc.

    One delegate told another he isn’t getting his support no matter what ‘ Screw you”..”No, Screw you”..blah blah blah ” You’re screwing the party” something like that.

  6. I would accept a Ruwart/Root ticket..any chance? People need to make some deals.

  7. ok, uh, Barr/Root

  8. “This ticket will kick so much aaaaaasssss. You just saved Americaa”-delegates to Root, w t f

  9. Since it looks like Barr will get the nomination, I hope the ticket is Barr-Ruwart or Barr-Kubby.

  10. Nerds are voting for Jim Burns for VP.

  11. I am not as offended by Root as most ( Barr is another story), but the people buying his 16 year plan BS are idiots.

  12. I won’t vote for Barr but I would not leave the LP. I just won’t vote.

  13. This SUCKS! Barr/Root would destroy the Party.

  14. What’s taking so long for the sixth ballot?

  15. Barr/Kubby would be awesome.

  16. Does anyone think Chuck Baldwin will get a write-in vote on the sixth ballot?

  17. Sixth ballot results:

    Barr 53%
    Ruwart 46%
    NOTA 1%

  18. Who will be the VP nominee? Root?

  19. Politics are cruel sometimes…

  20. Baldwin/Castle 2008 Viva La R3VOlution

  21. Barr thinks he can win. Now he’s bringing Shane Cory on to the stage.

  22. Gah. Why did he bring Shane Cory up?!

  23. I officially won’t be voting for the libertarian presidential ticket this year. I don’t see Ruwart wanting VP under Barr either.

    The neocons got their wish, they now are in prime position to destroy the LP.

  24. I want to know how many people were bussed in to vote for Barr. I have a feeling that there was a lot more going on than we are told thus far.

  25. barr 324 ruwart 276 nota 26

  26. I’m going to make a post about this tomorrow or later tonight….but real quickly…

    I’m very sad today. Mary was very close. The Root endorsement gave Barr the edge.

    Like I said, I will post my thoughts later and I feel I may end up making some “enemies” with my thoughts.

  27. Shall we radicals wait four years for the neocons to abandon the LP, or shall we start a quasi-libertarian wing in the GOP, CP, or GP?

  28. The LP is dead: Long live the LP.

    The “Junior Republican” reformists have elected Mr. Defense of Marriage Act, Mr. Patriot Act, Mr. Drug Warrior, MR. FAIRTAX as the LP prez nominee. Ruwart was slightly ahead when Root threw support to Barr in exchange for a VP endorsement.

    I can not and will not support a ticket that would devalue my retirement capital by 30% and make every American taxpayer dependent on a government check – I am living on savings and have ALREADY paid federal taxes on every dime. I am sitting out the 2008 election. I remain a member of the LP of New Mexico and will call for a special convention for the purpose of declining our state ballot spot to this ticket.


  29. Barr’s the nominee. I wanted Ruwart but I’m getting behind him. I’m going to go donate some money in a few minutes.

  30. […] to the Last Free Voice blog, as we know now that Bob Barr, a conservative right-wing former U.S. Congressman from Georgia, […]

  31. Hugh,
    There is/was the Boston Tea Party, maybe more people could check that out. I don’t know the best way, but it would probably be best to work for the LP at the local level and come back organized in 2012, so long as it is not in shambles by that time.

    This is a sad day, in 2004 I was proud to vote for Badnarik. That man did everything he could to get press, if they ignore you, what else can you do?

    Kudos to you for remaining a member of New Mexico.

  32. Im upset. But I hope other activists will join me in taking a step back and think for a moment. This sucks, I agree. However, please remember, if people “jump ship”, it may effect some states who struggle to keep ballot access. We have a hard enough time with that as it is. If people leave the party, we could end up hurting folks and I just don’t want to see that.

    I understand the emotions. Trust me, I’ve had my moments in the past when I wanted to say “F*ck this”, especially at the local level. But now I realize, the party needs people like me more than ever.

    Please, give some serious thought before you “leave” or proclain “the party is dead”. It will only be “dead” if activists jump ship right now based on the emotions of the day.

  33. I just feel sad that this year, I just can’t get behind the LP presidenial candidate.

    Also, why would Gravel throw his support to Root and Barr? That makes me think something fishy was in the works the entire time. Mary would be a much more likely match for Gravel than Barr or Root.

    Jason, we need the good folks now more than ever.

    Oye Vaye.

  34. I don’t plan to leave the party. However, I wouldn’t be opposed to state parties (ideally my own CALP) to disaffiliate from the national LP and nominate their own candidate (a la AZLP 2000). If this doesn’t happen, I will be undecided between Barr and Baldwin.

  35. I’m not a libertarian, but I have voted for LP candidates at the local level before and the only major party candidate I have ever cast a vote for was Congressman Paul in the GOP primary. I don’t know whether or not I would have voted for Ruwart in a general, but I can tell you this..there is NO way I will vote for a Bob Barr/Wayne Root ticket. Immediately after Root’s endorsement of Barr, while they were hugging and holding hands for the cameras, Root said that “the Republican party left us” and Barr nodded in approval. That should tell you all you need to know about Barr/Root, the sort of campaign they will run and the flank of voters they will campaign for. There will be no atempt to pick up decentralist leftists or Middle American anti-imperialists. It will be a campaign about being an alternative to McCain on the “right”. No thanks.

    I’d rather vote for Obama (though in fairness I’ll either vote Baldwin, Nader or McKinney..if I vote at all).

  36. Baldwin is looking great right now, but the CP isn’t on the ballot in Texas.

  37. What’s taking so long for the sixth ballot?

    That is what I was wondering… it took forever, then they conveniently forgot to read the state totals. Hmm.

  38. I refuse to vote for Barr. I will be writing in Ron Paul. And I won’t be sending a dime to the national LP for a very, very long time, if ever… especially if Redpath keeps his seat.

  39. If you can vote for the Constitution Party candidate over LP/Barr, what are you doing in the LP in the first place?!

    Barr is not that bad. I see a lot of people overreacting and reading a lot into Barr.

    I don’t care for Root, I wish the VP would be Ruwart, but Barr/Root is better than nothing. Let’s not waste this opportunity.

  40. What this whole hijacking by the Neocon caucus is about is money. Nothing else.

    Cory smears Ruwart.
    Stewart Flood does too.
    Flood in cahoots with Barr.
    Cory gets fired.
    Cory goes to work for Barr.
    A Republican fundraiser buys Third Party Watch.
    Same Repug is in cahoots with Barr.
    Barr pocketed 78% of all donations to his PAC.

    They will use the presidential race to collect names and addresses to use for fundraising for the campaign and beyond – worth millions.

    It is all about money.

    Connect the dots.

  41. “If you can vote for the Constitution Party candidate over LP/Barr, what are you doing in the LP in the first place?!”

    When Baldwin is arguably more libertarian than Barr is, wouldn’t it be unlibertarian of me to vote for Barr?

  42. Huge Ass makes a valid point.

  43. You know, Baldwin is far less libertarian than Barr. I don’t get why you could think otherwise.

    Barr thinks marriage should be decided at the state level. So does Baldwin, but he vehemently opposes gay marriage.

    Barr thinks we need a coherent immigration policy. So dos Baldwin, but he wants to create fortress America with virtually no immigration and prosecution of anyone who hires an illegal immigrant.

    Barr values privacy (or at least he does now). The CP calls for a war on pornography.

    And so on. Barr may be less than the ideal LP nominee, but the CP and Baldwin are arch-conservatives, some of the very enemies Phillies spoke of.

  44. Barr voted for the patriot act, Baldwin did not. ’nuff said.

  45. It’s not officially “Barr/Root” yet…Root must get the nomination first.

    Ruwart just endorsed Kubby for VP.

    They are streaming over at Barr’s website.

  46. “Barr voted for the patriot act, Baldwin did not. ’nuff said.”

    To be fair, Barr has renounced his vote, and Baldwin wasn’t in Congress. In response to darolew, Baldwin to my knowledge wants to eliminate the IRS in its entirely, whereas Barr merely wants to replace it with a “fair”tax.

  47. He can renounce all he wants. He has no principles.

  48. Bob Barr’s campaign site has a webcam with live coverage of the rest of the convention:

    Regardless of how you feel about his campaign, it’s the only place left with live coverage of the convention now that C-SPAN is cut away. It takes about 30-60 seconds to register for the chat room.

  49. Root, Kubby & Williams still in the VP race after ballot #1.

  50. Valid point about the CP. I just can’t vote for Barr though. I probably won’t vote at all, I would write in Ron Paul but you can’t do that via electronic voting.

  51. Williams dropped out and endorsed Root.

    CMON KUBBY!!!!!

  52. If they elect Kubby to balance the ticket, I would vote for Barr/Kubby. That would make me “happy enough”.

  53. That wouldn’t be balance at all. Barr is going to be selling the party as Republican-lite with no principles. The game is already lost. The hijacking is complete.

  54. I agree w/disinter. It really doesn’t matter who gets the VP.
    Dondero is probably creaming his pants right now.

  55. Dondero was creaming his pants with Barr/Root. He won’t be thrilled if Kubby gets it.

    I will say this, we do have some fine libertarians running locally here in Michigan. Including yours truly. Keep up the fight at the local level regardless if you refuse to vote for Barr.

  56. National is corrupt as hell. Any support I give in the future will be to the state party and state/local candidates.

  57. Just think, the party has gone in the direction that Dondero wanted it to. That should make any good libertarian CRINGE. And think “How in the beejeebus did this just happen?”

    If you think The Barr/Root delegates will go for Kubby you are just holding on to a last straw of hope.

  58. Oh well…officially Barr/Root

  59. The LP has officially been “Neo-Conned”.

    Now lets see if they make good on their promise of “Orgasmic Media Coverage”

  60. Who wants to BARF? Dondero will be in his glory….**ugh**

  61. Hey, hope is always a good thing. I’m a libertarian, if I didn’t hang on to “hope” I wouldn’t have much.

    Hell, I wouldn’t run for office this year myself if I didn’t have “hope”.

    Now I “hope” the party can figure a way to heal and re-organize our efforts for the next convention in 2 years. If we want our party back, we must begin work today.

  62. This sucks….sucks….sucks….

  63. # Jason Gatties Says:
    May 25, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    Im upset. But I hope other activists will join me in taking a step back and think for a moment. This sucks, I agree. However, please remember, if people “jump ship”, it may effect some states who struggle to keep ballot access. We have a hard enough time with that as it is. If people leave the party, we could end up hurting folks and I just don’t want to see that.

    I agree… I’ll hold my nose and vote for Barr. I lived in NC and it took a lot of effort and money just to get back on the ballot.

  64. Did anyone else find it rather creepy how C-SPAN relied on “Reason”, which has recently been taken over by admitted Neocons, to provide commentary on the LP convention?

  65. I made a joke that I wanted to know Baldwin’s URL. I just couldn’t stand one of the responses.

    Hey, this still hurts. But I’m not jumping ship.

  66. Yeah Disinter, my wife said the same thing.

  67. Barr/Root really sucks. Kubby would have been better for party unity. Nuts.

    Well…hopefully the two candidates who promised media coverage will be able to deliver. Let’s hope the general public doesn’t scrutinize as much as the blogs have been doing…

  68. I guess the bottom line is, there isn’t shit we can do now. Whats done is done. We just need to work harder now to re-claim our party.

    I need time to think about this fully. I won’t say now who I plan to support or who I may vote for. But I will say this, Barr won’t get a dime of my money.

  69. Sigh. I would have voted for Barr sans Root. I cannot stand Root. It is official. The LP is no longer sacred; first 2006 and now 2008.

    But, like Jason Gatties said, there is hope.

    The first thing that eases my mind about Barr’s campaign is the presence of Stephen Gordon. I’ve known Stephen since the 2004 Badnarik campaign. I worked with him to help design Badnarik’s site among the other things that I helped the community with that year. I still go back to hammeroftruth to see if Stephen has finished the new version yet (no luck btw). Stephen has been kind of a stable force in the LP since I joined back in 2003.

    That leads me to the second point. I used to be a Republican then one day I snapped. I had enough of party reform, and agreed with the Libertarians most of all. I like to say that I started out a pro war statist, and have become an open border Free Marketeer/Anarchist. From one extreme to the other. I learned a lot about freedom through libertarians. I owe them everything. Perhaps Barr and Root will continue their journey to the other side of the party. Knowledge and practice change everything.

    Thirdly, I believe that the way to reform the party, and the country as a whole, is through action, apart from politics. Politics are only one path to freedom; and it is only a path for us because we wish to reduce the power that politics wields in our lives. The better way is to convince people through direct interactions in their lives; for their benefit. We need to find needs and niches in our communities and meet them. We need to do this under no guise; no arguing our positions, no hiding our views; just plain action.

    For example, start a barter system that links local farms and businesses together with the local people, and helps them stretch their dollar for things that can’t be bartered. Or maybe start classes teaching basic skills, such as cooking, gardening, and growing. Most people are not taught these basic skills anymore; skills that may be needed in a near future.

    So like I said, there’s hope. We can re-coop the people’s confidence in liberty; we can rebuild the following that the LP needs to get back to it’s roots; and we can make a better society in the process.

    That’s basically my next phase. I’m starting up here in Northern Michigan. I hope others will do the same where they live.

  70. Disinter, what is this about Reason being taken over by neocons? I’ve been a subscriber for some time and haven’t heard about any major change like that?

  71. Kubby, Nolan, some of the radicals in the lobby preaching concilliation, i.e., sit out the election but “don’t badmouth the ticket.” That’s asking a lot. If the LP ticket actually won and enacted the “Fairtax” I might have to come out of retirement and go back to work just to pay my taxes. They won’t win but they could popularize the FT. Sorry folks, but I WILL be badmouthing the ticket.

    Now I’m in the position of working events for my state party all summer to sell these bike raffle tickets
    ( ), explaining libertarianism, and apologizing for our slate!

    I don’t think starting yet another new party (BTP is meeting as I type) is the answer. If third-party electoral politics is going to work, it’ll work with the LP. But I am becoming disillusioned with the electoral tool and am comtemplating other possibile approaches.

    Hope everybody can tolerate my whining for the forseeable future – there’s bound to be more coming!

  72. Write in “Kent McManigal”. The votes won’t be counted (just like the rest of the votes won’t really be counted) but you will feel better for standing up for libertarian ideals instead of… whatever the LP nominees represent.

  73. i

  74. Oh another thing. I don’t consider the LP dead. Look at the run Ruwart gave Barr! If it weren’t for the root/gravel faction we would still have a true libertarian running. That means we still have plenty of room to shift it back. Also, if you are worried about the people being carted in, byop (bring your own people)! Get more people in the party that follow your lines. Fight for it!

  75. Disinter, what is this about Reason being taken over by neocons? I’ve been a subscriber for some time and haven’t heard about any major change like that?

  76. Nice to see you comment on the blog here Michael.

  77. I watched on C-Span. I’m not ideological (I think ideologues of every stripe are unhelpful), but admire many libertarian ideas and also aoppreciate Ron Paul. I’ve voted for some libertarians in the past, but maybe never again, and certainly not for Barr/Root.
    Questions: 1) Why didn’t Ron Paul run?
    2) How could a party of principal elect Barr/Root?
    I sure hope Warren Buffet is correct, and Obama turns out to be an inspiring, transformational leader because the social conservatives now have their candidate thanks to the LP!

  78. Kent – wish I could write you in — we have those stupid electronic machines here. They SUCK!@

  79. CSPAN probably “‘relied” on reason because they are one of the few media that knows anything about the LP. I don’t really care much for Weigel, but to call reason, which is mostly staffed by anti-war, anti- drug war activists “neocons” is a bit much.

    not being in love with Republican Ron Paul does not make someone a neocon, especially if the disagreement has nothing to do with foreign policy. Not being a pure radical is not the same as being a neocon either.

    There is some (legit) argument to be made about a Con/Neocon “takeover” but when you call everyone who disagrees on any issue ( including fellow “radicals”) a neocon, your arguments aren’t taken seriously.

    Sometimes people say things that make Dondero sound rational.

  80. Anyway,
    Now that I think about it, this is probably the expected outcome. Every recent convention was disappointing. Why would I let it get me down this time. I guess.

  81. Jason Gatties Says:

    May 26, 2008 at 12:36 am
    I guess the bottom line is, there isn’t shit we can do now. Whats done is done. We just need to work harder now to re-claim our party.

    I need time to think about this fully. I won’t say now who I plan to support or who I may vote for. But I will say this, Barr won’t get a dime of my money.”

    Barr/Root, ! this is Dondero’s ticket, they’re in control of the Party, let them fund it !

    Hugh Jass Says:

    May 25, 2008 at 9:57 pm
    Shall we radicals wait four years for the neocons to abandon the LP, or shall we start a quasi-libertarian wing in the GOP, CP, or GP?

    I joined the LP over 20 yrs ago and have ran for cong. & U.S. Senate on the LP ticket, (once with Paul in ’88 btw) Baldwin is closer to Paul than Barr. I’m going with Baldwin. I know the CP has some stuff we disagree with, but I think Baldwin will stick to a RP platform in his race.

    As for how did this (Barr/Root) happen!? Not enough anti Barr-Root delegates showed up. Heck people ONLY 652 showed up. GA packed a Barr 33, Ruwart 2 delegation! Ruwart’s people were amatuers. After the first ballot they should have known Root held the kingmaker status. They could have offered Root the VP and might have won. It would have been a balanced ticket. Barr/Root is a libertarian-CONSERVATIVE ticket, definitely not balanced. Let them FUND the Party. Help Baldwin and local candidates you like, I say let fairTAX CIA Barr & W.W.III get their support from the “people” who nominated them, I’ll stick to my principles…

  82. Let’s all thank Elfninosmom for doing a fine job with the live blogging. Not sure if she had any help or not, but if she did, they deserve thanks as well. Live blogging the entire nomination process had to be very tough.

    Great work.

  83. Drudge hasn’t mention Barr getting the nomination. The bad news is that the lack of exposure has already started. The good news is he didn’t post a link to Christine Smith’s comments after she was eliminated.

  84. First a big THANK YOU! to ElfNinosMom for the hard work today.

    Secondly this has probably been in the works for sometime. I’d have some serious doubts if someone told me it was just patched together at the last moment.

  85. I would also like to thank ElfNinosMom and everybody else involved.

  86. Yes, thanks ENM for doing an unpleasant job for our benefit!

  87. I guess I’m in a den of lions, but I couldn’t ask for a better LP ticket.

    I’ve been a journalist for six years so you can predict that the Barr/Root ticket will be the most media-savvy campaign ever.

    There’s maybe 100 of you who will deflect at most, but let’s keep in mind that there are millions more Americans who will drive to the polls to put the Obama/Clinton ticket in office, but there might be more than 1 million casting ballots for the LP ticket.

    Rather than deflecting, you guys ought to be thanking Ron Paul for paving the way for the best media-friendly ticket in LP history.

    No offense, but I’m re-joining the LP at a prime opportunity.

  88. disinter, I might be running statewide in 2010. Remember me ok?


  89. There are more than 100 who will defect, but I do agree that Barr/Root will likely be the most successful Libertarian Party ticket at the polls. Of course it won’t be a libertarian ticket and the party will soon be either totally taken over by angry conservatives or thrown away like trash after this cycle, but man it’ll be KEWL short term!

  90. I’m mixed. As a co-founder of the Reform Caucus, it pleases me to see the party embracing media-friendly candidates who don’t come off as tin-foil hat wearers and rejecting the radical “legalize child porn” candidate. However as a left-leaner who supports things like open borders, progressive tax structuring and gay rights, I’m kind of disappointed. This was a definitely jump for the Ron Paul bandwagon, which is a good strategic move but also sequesters the party to the right wing when it needs to move left. I wanted to like Kubby, but still felt like he came off too “one-issue” (regardless of if he was, that’s how the media would portray him). Might’ve been a good VP candidate. Gravel would have been close except for the welfare socialism and the impression that he’s not all there. Why can’t the party field a candidate that recognizes the historic ties between classical liberalism and progressivism? Give the Greens an economics lesson. Adam Smith strongly disliked corporations, as they were inventions of the government and inefficient perversions of the free market. I really think the party should avoid confining itself to the right wing, and so I think this nomination was one step forward and possibly one step back.

  91. NickW, exactly. The only solution is the Obama Revolution and the Fringe Alliance Strategy.

    I have developed a strategy based on an alliance between the Green, libertarian
    and constitution parties, the various socialist movements and centrist independents, Kucinich Democrats, Ron Paul Republicans, and other smaller groups such as fascists, feudalists, monarchists and syndicalists, to initiate the following goals.

    1. The electoral college is abolished.
    2. The presidential election uses a national Majo rity Runoff system. This will change us from a republic to a democracy.
    3. Congress is elected through proportional representation.

    Third parties should spend most of their energies pushing for these constitutional amendments, using graphic protests in public locations. Otherwise, the
    efforts of all of them are doomed to do nothing more than push the major parties slightly in one direction, and ruin the chances of the parties that their
    candidates are most closely aligned with, while gaining such small failing numbers for themselves. The people who visit this site are by definitions on
    the fringes of society. It is important for the fringe to get together. This strategy is gaining the support of many political scientists across the nation,
    and I will continue to post it several times a week here until it is adopted. Fortunately, we have the Obama Revolution to save our country for now.
    The revolution will be televised.
    Please pray for the pope and please pray for Barack Obama. Amen.

  92. We have one strong libertarian and several libertarian leaning members at our UU church. Barr scares us. McCain’s a decent enough guy, but wed to the war and the military-industrial complex. Although my libertarian friend at church will probably vote for McCain, I’ll vote for and work for Obama who’s stated desire to get out of Irag, to balance the budget, emphasize personal responsibility, and end domination by special interests. He may end up being closer to libertarianism than any of the others. I’m convinced Obama at least understands the libertarian position and will try to weld together a coalition that respects and acknowledges the libertarian perspective. Politics is the art of the possible. I think we all pretty much know what a McCain or Hillary (or Barr) administration would be like. If every one on this blog joins the Obama team and engages the many young people who are already there (I know, I’m a teacher), we’ll have a better chance, IMO, of tilting the next administration toward libertarianism than any other way. Oh yes, I agree that Barr/Root will poll relatively well, but it will be the right wing conservatives that he has always appealed to. Has Barr really changed and will he be able to bring those right wing conservatives to a more libertarian view? I’m doubtful, but that’s the best case scenario for those of you willing to stick with him.

  93. @Joey: “There’s maybe 100 of you who will deflect at most, but let’s keep in mind that there are millions more Americans who will drive to the polls to put the Obama/Clinton ticket in office, but there might be more than 1 million casting ballots for the LP ticket.”

    Only 53% of the delegates supported Barr; and that only after six rounds of voting. Don’t you think that will show up in proportions of libertarians that will show up at the polls?

    I know for a fact that it will take the rest of the year to try and convince me to vote for the Barr/Root ticket. I might just write in Ron Paul or even the Kent fellow up top.

    I know that the Child Porn stunt that Root did has completely turned me off of having anything to do with Root; not the other way around as the media supposes. I stand with the radicals of the party who, while being edged out lately, are still very strong in the party. You haven’t chased us all out yet!

    Then there are those who have left; some of those who are huge in the libertarian media side, such as Ian from Free Talk Live.

    I just think that people are delusional about the Barr/Root ticket. Even if it brings in several million votes what have we gained? Exposure? On what? Conservative principles? We aren’t a conservative party yet. Exposure to conservative views does not help us one bit.

    What we need is the exposure to our more radical principles such as getting rid of the federal reserve and income taxes. What about free market law?

    Now I know Barr supported getting rid of those things in the debate. But I’m unconvinced, having that egotistical Root running as his VP, that this will actually be brought to light.

    I think that you will lose LP votes from the principled side. We will still vote for libertarians that are principled. But we won’t vote for unprincipled ones like Root.

  94. “Write in “Kent McManigal”. The votes won’t be counted (just like the rest of the votes won’t really be counted) but you will feel better for standing up for libertarian ideals instead of… whatever the LP nominees represent.”

    Mr. McManigal, couldn’t you file as a write-in candidate so that your votes would be counted?

    “Kent – wish I could write you in — we have those stupid electronic machines here. They SUCK!@”

    If you live in California, you can simply request a paper ballot. If you don’t, I think you can still get a paper ballot by filing as an absentee voter.

  95. I just wanted to thank you for keeping us updated. Thanks to you, I found out about all the LP happenings while being situated far from the nearest computer (I used my iPhone). So, just wanted to say thanks!

  96. will barr change his positions on abortion, drugs, gay marriage and the war for the party?

  97. Hugh Jass Says:

    May 25, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    Ruwart’s people were amatuers.

    I am one of those “amateurs”. I admit that after bringing Mary over to my delegation – Florida, 4 mind were changed to support her, and I should have continued to bring Mary over to other delegations which had possibilities. Unfortunately, there were several delegations which were unsalvageable . . . Georgia was all Barr. Tennessee was strongly Ruwart already, and the anti Ruwart Alicia Matttson was in firm hold on that faction.
    Virginia was so strongly Reform Caucus that it was a lost cause. California was probably the best bet, but was too big (101 or so delegates) for Mary to work her small group charm. Plus, Less Antman, Mark Hinkle and others
    were probably working the delegation anyway, but you never know . . . maybe Mary could have worked her charm there to bring about 10 or more votes.

  98. Hey Steve, this is Jason. It was great hanging out with you in Denver. Stay in touch. Peace.

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  100. BTW: I didn’t clap because I was holding my Mary sign and Ayn Rand portrait and preparing to bail out of the hotel as soon as Mary was done speaking!

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